Garry Kasparov: Magnus Carlsen is a Lethal Combination of Fischer and Karpov | Lex Fridman Podcast

This is a clip from a conversation with Garry Kasparov from Oct 2019. New full episodes once or twice a week and 1-2 new clips or a new non-podcast video on all other days. You can watch the full conversation here:
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Note: I select clips with insights from these much longer conversation with the hope of helping make these ideas more accessible and discoverable. Ultimately, this podcast is a small side hobby for me with the goal of sharing and discussing ideas. For now, I post a few clips every Tue & Fri. I did a poll and 92% of people either liked or loved the posting of daily clips, 2% were indifferent, and 6% hated it, some suggesting that I post them on a separate YouTube channel. I hear the 6% and partially agree, so am torn about the whole thing. I tried creating a separate clips channel but the YouTube algorithm makes it very difficult for that channel to grow unless the main channel is already very popular. So for a little while, I’ll keep posting clips on the main channel. I ask for your patience and to see these clips as supporting the dissemination of knowledge contained in nuanced discussion. If you enjoy it, consider subscribing, sharing, and commenting.

Garry Kasparov is considered by many to be the greatest chess player of all time. From 1986 until his retirement in 2005, he dominated the chess world, ranking world number 1 for most of those 19 years. While he has many historic matches against human chess players, in the long arc of history he may be remembered for his match again a machine, IBM’s Deep Blue. His initial victories and eventual loss to Deep Blue captivated the imagination of the world of what role Artificial Intelligence systems may play in our civilization’s future. That excitement inspired an entire generation of AI researchers, including myself, to get into the field. Garry is also a pro-democracy political thinker and leader, a fearless human-rights activist, and author of several books including How Life Imitates Chess which is a book on strategy and decision-making, Winter Is Coming which is a book articulating his opposition to the Putin regime, and Deep Thinking which is a book the role of both artificial intelligence and human intelligence in defining our future.

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120 Comments

  1. The clinching argument, Kasparov was the greatest world champion of all time. If we add 3% rating inflation onto his 2850 rating, we get 2925. A clear indisputable, mathematical proof by Gary making a case that he is the greatest Champion that ever lived. Even Magnus agrees. Perhaps this is the motivation to break 2900 and go higher.
    But subtle as always, it’s not Kosher to just come out with it. Who is the greatest of all time?
    ‘I am. The statistical argument speaks for itself, I am the greatest player that ever lived and it looks like it is not possible that any human will ever be able to play as well again. This kind of superhuman brainpower can probably only ever happen once in the natural lifetime of the human species, which realised its full expression in the strategic genius of Gary Kasparov….etc’ would be less palatable to the usual audience….

  2. i love the way kasparov is shinning his own shield .

  3. Rest of the world: chess isn't a sport.
    Kasparov: game of chess burns thousands of calories

  4. why does garry's upper lip seem dirty?

  5. Good point, the age gap is very important

  6. Who is the best chess player?

    Garry kasparov: Yeah i'm still the best you know, just not gonna say it out loud but here, extrapolate this data.

  7. Kasparov is better than magnus…. In my opinion

  8. Squeeezing every stone from a drop of water ???

  9. Magnus suspected that there was a mole – a leaker – in his inner circle, someone very close to him. So he prepped an obscure line he had never played before, and his suspicions were confirmed when Hans fell for the trap – Hans admitted in the post game interview that it was "a miracle" that he prepped for that opening in the morning prior to the game – yeah sure. Magnus did not bolt the tournament because he lost a game – he stormed out due to his feelings of a supreme betrayal. In time – we will find out who his Judas was – Judas betrayed Jesus for 30 silver coins.

  10. Brilliant and humble. Never heard him speak before but he seems very interesting.

  11. God doesn’t want anybody in hell because He loves us, but you must understand why we deserve hell and why those who refuse to live under His authority will go there. He gave us the law (Ten Commandments) not to make us righteous, but rather to show us our sin (Romans 3:20). We’re not sinners because we sin, but rather we sin because we’re sinners. Sin is the nature of our flesh that we are born with due to the sin of Adam in the garden. For someone to be justified before God they have to be sinless. We’ve all sinned (Romans 3:23), and the the law demands death for those who sin (Romans 6:23). God is righteous, so He must punish our sin, which is what He did through His Son Jesus Christ on the cross. Jesus is Holy and sinless, yet He received our sin when He died on the cross, so that we can be righteous before God (2 Corinthians 5:21). When He died on the cross, He said “It is finished” (John 19:30), which means He paid the full price for all of your sins (past, present, and future) to be forgiven. He was buried and rose again from the dead. God will forgive anybody who puts their full trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. We aren’t saved based on our good deeds, but only by the grace of God (Ephesians 2:8-9). His precious blood that He shed is the only reason why we can be forgiven of our sins (Hebrews 9:22). If you confess that Jesus is Lord and believe that God raised Him from the dead, then you’ll be saved (Romans 10:9). You are born-again with the Spirit of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17), and are not only legally justified before God, but also are accredited His righteous (Romans 4:24). Believers live for Christ now, so get to know Him through His Word. I recommend reading the book of Romans and the gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John), and watching Pastor Joseph Prince’s online sermons!

  12. I agree that to rank players of different era's it's best to view the candidates domination of competition of his own period. Given that, I can think of no one else but Morphy. No one else so dominated the field. No one else quit more or less from boredom. After him, Fischer. Then there are quite a few with strong claims to round out a top five or ten. Gerry, Magnus, Capa, and Lasker will be in the mix.

  13. Kasparov is right ofcourse as he always is ; the former top super GMs knew less of chess, but then again this argument has a flipside; that is that your opponents are greater today than before.

    So in the end, the latter defeat the former argument. Magnus is the GOAT in my view.

  14. 3:43 Maradona ofc!! Im 47, is that why im saying Maradona? I dont think so. But football and chess is different, MAgnus is standing on the shoulders of great chess wizards and knowledge, in football its skill, not knowledge. Then again over 50% of human brain is dedicated to the movement of our body. Im sitting in darkness, not looking on keyboard and can effortless type fast and correctly. Even after 7 pints.. Thats a skill also 😀

  15. Lex keeps peeping his notes. Touching them

  16. I never watched any of garry's games or interviews, but after this I understand why he is considered one of the GOATs

  17. When Gary said there are about 50 2700+ players in today's world I see that as a case to why it's even more impressive that Magnus is at the top. With so many more 2700 players it makes it way more difficult to keep winning when there's so much more competition. And yet Magnus managed to stay at the top. Especially when a draw actually loses rating.

  18. "I belong in 89" that is such a gigachad statemenet fro some reason

  19. The football reference about pele and messi is so great! Of course i like carlsen more than kasparov because im from the younger generation

  20. I like how Gary doesn't even consider Cristiano Ronaldo in best soccer player debate.

  21. It's hard to compare ratings from older days for sure, either way Magnus would bite his head off in a chess game today and like he said, the newest generation always has more available information.

  22. One thing to be said though, is that it's only natural that players are more tightly gapped today simply because there is much more competition due to the spread of the internet and just chess evolving in general

  23. highly logical answer, of course time is an important factor, same as scientists 100 years ago didn't know as much as they do now, because people inherit knowledge

  24. I love how he explained how the newer generations are standing on the shoulders of the ones before them and the best way to make an assessment of who's better is to look at the gap between the person and the field. I say this all the time to my friends, and they never understand the point I'm making.

  25. Not sure but the way the interviewer looks at Kasparov is not comfortable

  26. I actually think the exact opposite is true about rating inflation. There is such a larger pool of players near or at the top but also players slightly below them who tug on their ratings and so on.

    Really rating is irrelevant because when players are so close to each other they fluctuate back and forth. For magnus to come out of such a competitive field and still be on top is remarkable.

    These days you can show that the average centipawn loss of a player at 2200 might be less than a player 30 years ago rated 2400. Don't quote me on the numbers, but if that is true it makes manguses comparatively small gap compared to kasparov actually look incredible.

    None of this is to say which was the better player or if a kasparov in this generation wouldn't beat a magnus (not to mention kasparov has played this generation and even at his age appears to have lost very little if anything since his time), only that the difference between top players has shurnk immensely so we can't just say that the gap is what defines how impressive one's reign as champion is.

  27. counterargument to the idea that you cant compare greats from different eras is that theres so many more resources now that way more people can become good. therefore magnus is more impressive because he is the best in the most competitive and advanced era.

  28. Idk If this applies to chess, but In tennis, we also factor in the fact that nowadays there’s a much more global feeder system into the pros, thus the field is much bigger and more competitive….

  29. In an unsolved intellectual sport like chess the greats always stand on the shoulders of the greats that came before them when it comes to how well they play the board. The only way to really compare them is how dominant they were in their time, given that in those times everybody is playing with relatively the same information and orthodox their contemporaries are playing. Kasparov couldn't have said it better, and basically explained the essence of any sport that could be mathematically Elo rated. The most recent world champ in their prime will likely always be better than those before.

  30. This guy was way ahead of anything in his area… I totally like listening to his voice of speaking chess when he grow up. This is so inspirational!

  31. I think he gave a brilliant answer, which applies to all sports, when he said the answer to the GOAT question is largely generational, not only in advanced technology, but also depending on who you ask, from what age group, and who was the greatest when they reached an age where they could comprehend and appreciate greatness. So if you ask younger chess players today, they will overwhelmingly choose the player who made the greatest impression on them NOW (or when they were at that impressionable age), therefore in Chess they will choose Magnus. Ask someone from the prior generation and they probably say Kasparov. Ask someone much older and they will probably say Bobby Fischer. It depends on who you ask and who DOMINATED when they reached that impressionable age. Young people today might say LeBron in Basketball. Ask Gen X and they say Jordan. Ask Boomers and they might say Wilt Chamberlain. Same goes for Boxing or most other sports. So IMO that was a very insightful response. I also like that he said it's hard to compare generations because each generation has access to greater training and information. The proper way to judge it, he said, is by how wide the gap was between #1 and all of their peers. You can also consider longevity, though I personally place a greater emphasis on the former, but all of his replies were quite astute.

  32. Messi is about to win in about 12hours from now

  33. Well Messi just won his WC solidfying his GOAT status

  34. Here after Messi did it

  35. Yesterday Messi did win a World Cup! So that settles the GOAT debate

  36. This should be framed and preserved as the best answer to the GOAT nonsense. Chess progresses, hence today’s best player should always play 'better' than the best players of the past. Which means the best player who ever played the game is Magnus Carlsen – today.

    But one cannot hold against former champions that they could not be part of the progress that occurred after them. If one compares players by historical merit, then it is not only a question of Kasparov, Carlsen or Fischer – even though these certainly belong to the most accomplished players of all time. Also champions from 100 +years ago like Lasker and Capablanca, or of 170 years ago like Morphy, who did so much to move the game forward, enter the conversation – and with force.

  37. He is a brilliant guy in the world of chess!
    Clever Russian guy.

  38. This is a clip from a conversation with Garry Kasparov from Oct 2019. New full episodes once or twice a week and 1-2 new clips or a new non-podcast video on all other days. If you enjoy it, subscribe, comment, and share. You can watch the full conversation here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RVa0THWUWw
    (more links below)

    Podcast full episodes playlist:
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